#069 Jacob Pegs on The Hidden Healing Journey of Building a Business
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In this episode, Modern Maker Jacob Pegs reveals the hidden healing journey behind building businesses — and why your trauma scales with your revenue until you're willing to meet it.
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“You may scale from a 5k to a 50k month, but your trauma, your wounds and your healing process comes with you at a higher level. It’s not going anywhere.”
Today's Guest
Jacob Pegs
Jacob Pegs is a solopreneur, creator, and founder of Modern Maker, based in Nicosia, Cyprus — known for shipping businesses like a motherflower. He built a $1M+ one-person business with 1 offer, 1 post, and 1 email a day — no sales calls, no DMs, no team — and now helps hundreds of creators, solopreneurs, and visionaries turn their quirkiest ideas into successful, life-first businesses that feel fun and fulfilling.
His journey runs from jazz guitarist to self-taught developer to agency founder: he scaled Mojo Design to $500K/ARR, co-founded a metaverse consultancy that hit $1.2M in nine months, then founded Modern Maker, where he's served over 350 clients and 2,800+ customers. In his own words, he's a girl dad to Nefeli, husband to Artemis, pet parent to 3 dogs and 2 cats, horrendous basketball player, hobby runner, watermelon evangelist, alright guitarist, and email nerd.
How to get in touch:
Website: https://jacobpegs.co/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@most_mojo
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejacobpegs
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-pegs/
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Show Notes
What if the business you're building isn't just a way to make money — but the very vehicle through which you heal? In this episode, Amanda sits down with Jacob Pegs, the solopreneur behind Modern Maker, known for shipping businesses "like a mother flower" and his signature one offer, one post, one email a day method. But beneath the impressive track record is a far more tender story: a boy from Cyprus with divorced parents and a one-way ticket to America, who kept meeting his own wounds at every stage of success — and kept saying yes to healing anyway.
Jacob shares, more openly than he ever has on a podcast, the four or five monumental inner events that shaped him: buying back his mother's childhood home when the family was about to lose it, a two-year court case against a relative who tried to take his company, a high blood pressure diagnosis at 26 from working 70-hour weeks, and the mentor's question — was this the dad he wanted to be? — that broke him open and changed everything. Each moment of outer crisis became, as Amanda names it, an initiation into the next level of who he was becoming.
This conversation dissolves the false wall between business and inner work. Jacob explains why people come to him for money but stay for something much deeper, why you can scale from a 5k to a 50k month and your trauma will still come with you, and why the strategy is actually the easy part — believing you can be the person who executes it is the real work. He also breaks down, in refreshingly simple terms, what a funnel actually is, why you don't need to reinvent anything, and how building at the intersection of your interests makes you unmissable.
Whether you're a healer who's scared to sell, a burnt-out agency owner behind a mask, or someone who's tried and flopped and wonders if that means something about you — this episode will feel like sitting on the floor with a friend who's a few steps ahead, handing you back your belief in yourself.
Key Takeaways
Your business is a mirror, not just a machine. Every stage of growth surfaces the wounds you haven't met yet
Your trauma scales with your revenue — inner work isn't optional, it's infrastructure.
Business isn't separate from healing; showing up to your own business is healing.
You don't have to reinvent anything — do what works, in your own way, with your own story.
Build at the intersection of your interests and you become a category of one.
The strategy is the easy part; believing you're the person who can execute it is the real work.
A flop isn't a verdict on your worth — it's information. Take the lesson, try a new angle.
Don't convince people; show them what you're doing and invite them deeper.
If you're not creating it for them, create it for you — the universe finds its way around creation.
Money is never really the goal; it's what money allows that matters.
What We Talked About
The grounding meditation Amanda guided before the interview — and why she opens every conversation this way
What "shipping businesses like a mother flower" actually means, and Jacob's one offer, one post, one email a day method
What a funnel really is: a series of easy yeses (explained for people who've never heard the word)
Jacob's winding path: jazz guitarist in California → Bitcoin rabbit hole → UCL thesis on subscription services → self-taught developer → agency founder
The flops along the way: a recipe delivery app before its time, a hairdressing app, a failed startup — and the crypto trading bot that made his first 100K
His granddad, the original maker, and the Greek roots of the Modern Maker name
Hiding behind an anonymous Twitter account and the healing it took to take the mask off
The four monumental inner events: buying back his mum's home, the court case with his cousin, the burnout diagnosis at 26, and becoming a dad to Nefeli
The therapist's key: why a boy who always had to give things away needed to learn to say "this is mine"
Why people come for money but stay for the deeper work — the garlic wrapped in ham
Feeding 300 families through 5% of Modern Maker proceeds, and the student who bought his kids Christmas presents for the first time in years
What's next: property, giving back to Cyprus and Malawi, and a bigger why
Guest Quotes
"A consultant always has the right answers. A guide is just your buddy who's next to you on the journey."
"Writing is healing. Showing up to your own business is healing."
"You don't have to reinvent anything. You can actually do what works, but do it in your own way, with your own energy, with your own style, with your own way of saying it."
"The market will tell you if they like it or not, but you gotta let it out there. And if it's a flop, so be it. Take the lesson, try it again, try a different angle."
"I always believed that you are the funnel, because you truly are."
"If you spoke to the intersection of your interests, you are by default a lot more interesting."
"As long as you do create it, then the universe will find its way around that creation."
"So if you're not doing it for them, do it for you."
"I don't want to convince, I just get to show you what I'm doing."
"You may scale from a 5k to a 50k month, but your trauma, your wounds and your healing process comes with you at a higher level. It's not going anywhere."
"I would wake up every morning putting a mask on and pretending I was someone I wasn't."
"I wish I knew how much more I was capable of."
"It's what money can allow that is really heartfelt for me."
Resources to Learn More
Modern Maker — Jacob's business and community of 250+ makers who ship businesses together - https://jacobpegs.co/
Jacob's daily email list — he's written a daily email for around five years - https://jacobpegs.co/
Jacob's YouTube channel — includes free-form interviews with student case studies - https://www.youtube.com/@most_mojo
Terms & Tools to Dig Deeper
Bite-sized offers — Small, low-cost (free to a few dollars) products that let people test-drive your world before committing to a bigger offer.
Energy & frequency — The felt sense or vibe you bring to your work and content; showing up with full conviction "pierces through anything."
Funnel — A series of small, easy yeses that guide someone from discovering you (e.g. on social media) toward a transaction — like joining your email list, booking a call, or buying an offer.
The Gameplan Tool — Jacob's tool that creates a custom client-getting plan in five minutes.
Grounding meditation — A practice of consciously connecting to your body and the earth to feel present, safe, and centered; Amanda opens the episode with one.
ICF (International Coaching Federation) — A well-known coaching accreditation body, mentioned as one of the "shoulds" Jacob chose to sidestep in favour of his own model.
Iggy, The Offer Maker — Jacob's AI tool that writes your high-ticket offer — the bite-sized tool Amanda mentions using in the episode.
Inbound marketing — Attracting clients to come to you through content, email, and trust-building, rather than chasing them with cold outreach, DMs, or sales calls.
Indie hacker — A builder who creates and launches their own small software products or businesses independently, without big teams or investors.
Inner child work — A healing approach (associated with Carl Jung) of tending to the younger version of yourself whose unmet needs and wounds still shape your adult patterns.
The Island (Ship to Stay) — Jacob's community where makers ship products daily or get kicked out — accountability through creation.
Lead magnet — A free resource (like a PDF or asset) offered in exchange for someone's email address, moving them off social media into your world.
Metaverse / NFTs / blockchain — Digital technology spaces from Jacob's early career: virtual worlds, unique digital collectibles, and the ledger technology behind cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.
One offer, one post, one email a day — Jacob's signature method: simple daily creation that orbits around your audience and invites them deeper without pressure.
Personal brand — Building an audience around who you are and how you see things, rather than around a single product or job title.
Power Writing — Jacob's storytelling framework for building an audience and shifting beliefs through writing.
Proximity Offers — Jacob's framework for creating offers that serve your whole audience without draining your energy — different price points, different levels of closeness to you.
Savior pattern — A tendency to rescue others (often rooted in childhood) as a way of seeking validation or worth; Jacob confronted his after buying back his family's home.
Shipping — Launching things into the world quickly and repeatedly — products, posts, offers — rather than waiting for perfect.
Solopreneur — Someone who runs their business entirely on their own, without employees or a team.
Thanks for listening!
What was your biggest insight from this episode? Let me know @amandaparker.co
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Episode Transcript
Jacob Pegs: [00:00:00] You don't have to be the next Mark Zuckerberg, right? Like, I think with entrepreneurship, people said you have to invent the next unicorn and the next thing, and through my years of business, I realized you don't have to reinvent anything. You can actually do what works, but do it in your own way, with your own energy, with your own style, with your own way of saying it
Welcome to Don't Step on the Bluebells, the podcast where personal healing and transformation take center stage. I'm your host, Amanda Parker, and I'm a fellow seeker on the journey of personal growth. Join me as I delve into the stories of gifted healers, guides, and everyday people who have experienced remarkable transformations.
Listen in as they share their practical wisdom to enrich your everyday life. And don't forget to hit subscribe and never miss a new episode.
Welcome to today's episode of Don't Step on the [00:01:00] Bluebells. I am here with the remarkable Jacob Pegs. I am so excited to have this conversation. For those of you who don't know, Jacob is an extremely successful businessman. He's a solopreneur, he's a creator. He's based in Cyprus, and he is known for shipping businesses like a motherflower, and also known for his signature method of having one offer, one post, one email a day.
So I have been following Jacob's journey probably for about a year now, and have been so incredibly impressed by what you're creating that I could not wait to invite you to come here and share a bit of your journey with us.
Thank you. It's a pleasure, and it's awesome hanging out, going through all that we're gonna go through, and very grateful to be here and ready to explore whatever that may be.
Amanda Parker: For anyone who's listening, I mean, Jacob is, like, a prolific creator. So if you [00:02:00] are on LinkedIn or YouTube or Instagram, you have definitely come across all of his content, which is incredibly Not only valuable, but also very humble. Like the way that you share your own journey of entrepreneurship and the way that you share the business lessons that are literally changing people's lives, you're doing it in such a way that is, like, accessible, that no one feels stupid, no one feels left behind.
I would love just to ask if you-- if that was your intention when you began helping people with their businesses.
Jacob Pegs: Honestly, I get asked that a few times, and my response is always sort of leading with the heart, and I think I was a jazz musician once upon a time in what feels like a previous life. I never enjoyed being on the stage.
I liked being on the floor with people, so whenever I played guitar or anywhere, whenever there was no stage and people were just around, you know, the community and all, it felt like I was performing from the same floor rather than up [00:03:00] above on a stage. So now, as we can see, like, I've got my daughter's whiteboard and things.
Like, everything I doodle, everything I say, I always mean it from a place that is on the same floor as someone else. Um, and I think it just comes out naturally that way. Like, we are all created equal. I may be one or two steps ahead, uh, in the thing that I'm talking about, and I wanna share it as the same way I shared my guitar, uh, pieces or my other, you know, arts and, and things.
So I'm, I'm glad you point that out because, um, I think even when we first chatted, it's always about being a more of a guide than a teacher in my world. Like, um, a consultant always has the right answers. A guide is just y- your buddy who's next to you on the journey, right?
Amanda Parker: I also wanna share with everyone who's listening that this conversation, I mean, like, you really know business and you know it intimately in a way that many [00:04:00] people I would say either don't know or haven't been able to figure out for themselves.
And I know also from my own personal journey that just this process of creating a business and sticking it out and, like, figuring out all these details along the way, including who the hell am I and what do I do and why am I doing this, that it really is a healing journey. And for me, I've been wanting to showcase for so long, especially a lot of the listeners are healers themselves, but I've really wanted to showcase how running a business can be a journey towards healing, and that's, like, the crux of what I'm so excited to go into.
Jacob Pegs: Oh, that's amazing. And, and I've always said for me as a writer, as an artist, I feel more artist than, than business owner so- at times, and I'm like, writing is healing. Showing up to your own business is healing. Going through those ebbs and flows has a lot of frequency and energy and all of that, and I think [00:05:00] probably mo- most logically minded business owners, like, I don't wanna, like, s- point at them, but they have the healer and, and the frequency and the energy in them.
They just hide it or they're not aware of it. And once you do become aware, the rides and the journey is so much more fun.
Amanda Parker: Just hearing you say that there's this element of creating a business, especially in 2026, let's say, that there's a million people who wanna tell you how to do it the right way. So it doesn't feel like a healing journey often because you just feel like you're getting it wrong every day.
And, like, there's something that's, that's why what you do is attractive because there's a softness to how you present it. It's not guru sage on the stage, which I also hate and have fallen for and all of that. But it's literally like, "Here is one way to run a business. This way happens to work for me.
Feel free to adopt it on your own as well."
Jacob Pegs: Yeah, or adopt [00:06:00] 5% or 25%. It doesn't have to be 100, it can even just be passing through it. Um, but you're absolutely right.
Amanda Parker: So if you were to explain to your five-year-old self what it is that you do, how would you describe your work?
Jacob Pegs: Um, you very rightfully said it at the beginning, right?
I ship businesses like a mother flower. Um, I have a little saying where, um, the agency ate me whole. I once had a web development agency. My journey started as a freelance web developer, went from the US to the UK, did the whole, you know, from employee starting my own business. And then through that, I realized I was really good at marketing and writing, where my heart was more on the, on the creative side and less on the coding, building side.
So when I switched things over and started consulting, um, I now own Modern Maker, so again, embracing the, the making, so there is the builder. Um, but essentially what I do is I [00:07:00] help people install little machines, little systems, little engines that bring clients and leads and things to them so they don't have to go and get them.
For me, the message is always once you install the system one time, then you get to sit in your creator seat and express yourself through your writing, through your content, and allow that expression to get people into the system or the funnel, and then that will work its magic.
Amanda Parker: So this is gonna be such a ridiculous question to you, but, like, there will be people listening who are like, "What's a funnel?"
You don't have to go into a masterclass, but maybe just, like, explain a little bit what exactly that means for, you know, someone who hasn't ever done that.
Jacob Pegs: Yeah, that's actually good that you're, you're challenging me this way. I'm so immersed in the world that I forget. Um, but essentially, um, you can post on LinkedIn, on Instagram as you normally would, right?
And you, you write content or you, you shoot a reel or a podcast or [00:08:00] video. Um, sometimes you have content that explains things. Other times you tell your story. Other times you might ask someone to raise their hand. Um, you might give them a free lead magnet or, you know, a PDF or, or an asset, or get them off the platform, um, and into your email list, for example.
Um, that in itself is a funnel because you're moving them away from social media into your email. Um, you can move them from social media to your calendar to book a call. That is also a very basic funnel. But essentially a funnel is a way-- I, I say it's, it's a series of easy yeses that lead to a transaction, whether that is monetary or not.
W- when I say shipping businesses, uh, like a mother flower, it is always iterating and testing different projects, different products, different services, different businesses Until you [00:09:00] find one that sticks, and then you're basically getting somebody from social media to your bank account through that process, which is the funnel that you make.
Amanda Parker: Yeah, I think that's also a good reminder to people who are listening, also to myself, to anyone who's even been in business for a long time, most people don't get it right on the first try.
Jacob Pegs: Oh,
Amanda Parker: yeah. There's always an iterative process, and like what Jacob's talking about, this, this funnel process. I mean, he also figured this out over years, of course.
But you could try something and find out, and it might not work, and it doesn't mean you're not good at what you do, and it doesn't mean people don't want what you have. It just means you haven't found the right way to reach them in the, like, exact moment in life that they're facing right now.
Jacob Pegs: Yeah, and also you don't have to be the next Mark Zuckerberg, right?
Like, I think with entrepreneurship, people said you have to invent the next unicorn and the next thing. And through my years of business, I realized you don't have to reinvent anything. You [00:10:00] can actually do what works, but do it in your own way, with your own energy, with your own style, with your own way of saying it.
And just like, I mean, I don't know where in London, but in Cyprus we have a lot of accountants left, right, and center who do exactly the same thing, but most of them are different by personality or they have a different way of doing it. And it's like, you know, you're not reinventing accounting, you're just reinventing who's, who's saying it and with what story.
Amanda Parker: I love that because I come from a long line of accountants.
Jacob Pegs: Oh, yeah. Well, great. So
Amanda Parker: Dad, if you're listening.
Jacob Pegs: This one's for you.
Amanda Parker: Yeah. So that's a great, like, foundation already just to getting an understanding. But I'm really curious, I mean, I know you didn't just start shipping businesses, um, and you mentioned like a little bit starting in the web design field, but how did you get to this place where Modern Maker became your primary [00:11:00] place of business?
Jacob Pegs: As I said earlier, like I picked up my guitar and went to study jazz in Cal State. Um, I lived in Dominguez Hills in Long Beach, uh, as a young 20-year-old. I would took-- got a one-way ticket there, and in my second year of university, there was something called Bitcoin at the time, which was developed on something called a blockchain.
And I ended up spending more time figuring out what the hell that was instead of playing jazz. Um, so I realized there that my curiosity was being pulled towards technology and that obviously I still play guitar to this day, and I absolutely love it. There's the guitar right there, uh, in the back. But it is me going, "This is what I wanna do."
And I became obsessed with like figuring out this little system again. Like, what is this currency? What is this thing? And have in mind, I had no idea what any of this was. I had [00:12:00] zero understanding. So I pursued, you know, my own research, and through that, to cut long story short, I got a master's at, uh, UCL in London Where I, I wrote my thesis on, on, uh, subscription services, predicting that things like Netflix and Spotify pre their existence would come to life.
And then, uh, wrote my thesis on Spotify and sent them my, my, my thesis. I didn't get the job, but I got a lot of, uh, insight on how networks and things worked and whatever. And then from there, um, next to us there was a company called Revolut, who was a startup, and they did payments and transactions, and they weren't quite Bitcoin, but they were close enough in, in British pounds.
And I started applying to, to places like that and was a self-taught web developer basically, and then did the agency world there. But I was always [00:13:00] very curious, so I think at age 23 I tried to launch an app that delivered, uh, food to your door as recipes, but it was so ahead of its ti- like I just couldn't find funding.
It flopped. It failed miserably. Um, and then a few years later in London, there was a startup called Gusto, I think, that just raised millions to do exactly that. And from there, like I tried a hairdressing app. I tried a, uh, algorithmic trading bot for crypto where I figured out a way to trade without me pre-AI with technology, and I made my first 100K as a 22, 23-year-old.
Um, so I tried to then turn that into a startup. That flopped. I didn't know how to lead a team. I didn't know how to raise money. I was just a nerd in my basement shipping things. Um, but all that to say, I was like, "Hold on a minute. There must be something that's gonna catch." And the [00:14:00] first time we, uh, it was still in this cryptic universe where, um, you may have heard of the metaverse from where all these strange cartoons were sold as NFTs in the crypto space with weird monkey faces and whatever.
And we tried to run ads in the metaverse, and we raised 1.2 million, and that was the first time I went, "Hey, the bedroom experiment worked." Like, and we assembled a little team and, you know, this was in London. But by shipping different things and following my curiosity, I was withering from being employed in startups to trying to create my own.
Um, I always just shipped wherever my mind was and tried to I tried to be the next Zuckerberg until I realized, hold on, why don't I just code and do something really basic like build a website? People need those things. And then got a job there at an agency and [00:15:00] decided to build my own websites, and that's when my agency was born, not reinventing the wheel, just building them our way.
Scaled that to half a million a year with a team of seven, and it was very easy. I didn't have to invent anything new to ship. I just had to ship what was previously working. And then, um, through that entire journey, I always wrote emails. We did email marketing and, and social media for other people, but I was too much of a scaredy cat to do it myself.
So I was like the ghost behind people's accounts. We did like FIFA '21 and EA Sports and Vogue Magazine and crazy names, but I was just like, "No, not for me." And then my grandad at the time, who was alive, he, he was a maker himself. He went through the war in Cyprus here in 1974 and then was literally selling peer-to-peer cigarettes one, [00:16:00] one-on-one.
Scaled his own hospitality business and always loved his garden, loved making things, and I was like, like he taught me the word maker that was embodied in me, and I realized I'm, I'm half Greek, like half Cypriot. And I was like, the Greeks built things with their hands, like the Parthenon and all those things were bricks stacked together.
The Egyptians built pyramids by stacking different types of bricks. Well, our generation, the nerds and the indie hackers would stack, you know, code and curly brackets and content, and I was like, that's the-- a modern maker. Like we, we make things our way and I can't lift things to save my life, but I can code things and glue software together.
So that's where the spirit of Modern Maker was born, like Where I realized I can put two and two together my way. And I went on LinkedIn and I started yapping about how I'm shipping different products and different [00:17:00] things and exactly how I described here where I was like, "I tried this, it didn't work. I tried this and it did work.
This is what I learned." And I didn't really have like a, a label as, you know, a business consultant or a marketing consult. I didn't know what I was. I was just like the guy who was building things and talking about it. And that started gaining traction and I started on Twitter as a purple dog with laser eyes who was completely anonymous 'cause I had my own healing journey to go through to just take the mask off.
And people were messaging me on Twitter going, "Can you build this for me?" You know, "Can you build that?" And th- and I would get deals off of Twitter with an audience of like 1,000 people or less because I kept showing the things I was building. Uh, and I would get on calls with people anonymously and I wouldn't turn the camera on.
And they were like, "I don't trust you. I'm about to give you money here." And I was like, "I don't, I'm the laser, [00:18:00] laser-eyed guy."
Amanda Parker: Oh my gosh.
Jacob Pegs: Um, but eventually, you know, took the mask off and showed my face. Um, I tried to cover it as much as I could with an orange background and my long hair at the time. Um, and then it took off.
But in those moments I think I realized at the agency there was a few areas that led me to fall out of love with leading the team and the responsibility. It almost felt like I stepped away and hired people to do what I truly loved and just became a manager. Like I was going from meeting to meeting, closing deal after deal.
There were days where like we'd close an 80K deal for a mobile app and I was like, "I wanna refund you and go on LinkedIn and write stuff and express myself." So, uh, the saying was, you know, the agency ate me so I started shipping more businesses and following my curiosity. And through that people [00:19:00] kept asking, "How are you doing this?"
So then I named the, the next business Modern Maker and it's got a community now of 250 other makers And we all ship businesses like a mother flower and we sell them and we market them. So that's sort of a little bit of a summary.
Amanda Parker: It's super, super inspiring. Like, I don't even need to ask questions because I just wanna listen to you share and speak.
I just think it's so interesting, like, in this world of business 'cause I'm, you know, I'm really surrounded by... I've worked in leadership development, so I've worked a lot in, like, the corporate space and, yeah, with big companies like, um, in fintech or in finance or in e-commerce or, you know, even across like, uh, government agencies like UNICEF or World Bank, so very different industries.
And I'd say recently, in the [00:20:00] last three, two to three years, I'm mostly exposed to solopreneurs who are, you know, we both use that word about like heart-centered, heart-led, but there's like... It's, it feels different because what you're describing from the heart is following that curiosity, that passion, and bringing things to life.
But there's this other end of the spectrum of like heart-led, um, or soulpreneur, if you will, um, where it's like your identity is the product. And I find that, like, especially in the coaching space or the healing space, and I know I've faced this so many times myself, where I'm like, "I can't put a product out," because it's like, this is me, and if I put this thing out or I do put things out, and if they're not accepted, it does feel like a rejection, even if it has nothing to do with me.
So I'm really super fascinated by that part of your story where, [00:21:00] yeah, you were young and tenacious and blah, blah, blah, so you just kept trying new things out. But you do have so much heart and soul, and the products themselves don't always have to be, you know, the amalgamation of like all of that soul that you carry within you.
Oh,
Jacob Pegs: yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I think- Do you know what I
Amanda Parker: mean?
Jacob Pegs: I, I was always in that boat as well, like scared to ship because what would they think? And, you know, as a musician too, it was the same with music. Like, "I don't wanna ship this song to the, to the public. What will they think of me? And will I be judged?"
And, you know, whatever. The same applies in entrepreneurship, where I then realized the market will tell you if they like it or not, but you gotta let it out there. And if it's a flop, so be it. Take the lesson, try it again, try a different angle. Um, and, and the soul that comes out of it, like since you asked earlier about the word funnel, I always believed that [00:22:00] you are the funnel because you truly are.
Like, sure, you can get a program to To automate a few emails and things, but if you are the centerpiece, that's where I always felt you get to be that own-- like, you get to own your own category and be what you want at the intersection of your interests.
Amanda Parker: Well, how would you, um, like is there advice you might give to someone who's kind of caught in that cycle of like trying to get the perfect version of themselves that they're putting out in that product?
Because, yeah, I, I'm so inspired by how often you just tried things to find out, and that you kept doing it. Like, you didn't let it knock you down and go back to, you know, agency life or join a corporate, you know?
Jacob Pegs: Yeah. I mean, the, the biggest realization I had was, 'cause I've also been, I've had many coaches and invested a lot to try and learn things, and everyone has their own opinion, and I was always told, "You should do these," I don't know, [00:23:00] "sales calls this way," or, "You should be coaching people this way," and there's this thing called an ICF that you should do, and then here's another accreditation on like, you know, blah, blah, blah.
And I went, "Wait a minute. I don't like this. I don't like this. I kinda like this. What is stopping me from building a model?" I, I use the word model softly. Building, uh, an idea that intersects the things I like. So I went, "I love coding. I love writing. Can I be a poet who codes?" For example.
Amanda Parker: Oh, I love that.
Jacob Pegs: And then I l- so emails and LinkedIn and all of this writing stuff fed, you know, if I, if this was a pie chart, it would feed a third of it. Then the other third was the, was sort of the coding and, and all of that. And then I had a- another, uh, part which was all about energy and frequency, [00:24:00] almost like a mystic in me who wanted to be present and hold space and, you know, the, the, the traditional coaching thing or the healing.
So what happens if, if modern maker is the intersection of all of these three things? Who's stopping me from putting myself out there and, and talking to each pillar, the energy, the coding, and the writing? And that's exactly what I did, and it took people longer to grasp what I did, but once they did, they were like, it's not a topic, it's an identity of someone you, you become.
So whenever I share this, I'm like, we are now in 2026 where there's so much information, there's so many things. If you spoke to the intersection of your interests, you are by default a lot more interesting. The journey will take a little bit longer, but that's how you build a personal brand. That's how you test different ideas, and you can do it.
Like in [00:25:00] my world, as soon as I figured out the outcome could be healing, or in my case it's, it's making money while being yourself. If I knew the outcome was money, I could talk about energy in the context of making money. I could talk about code in the context of making money and write in the context of making money.
So I used money as a lens word, almost like a filter where everything pointed towards. But then on LinkedIn every day I'm talking about a different startup, a different project, a different thing at the intersection of these three pillars, I would say. So if you are stuck, if you are thinking, the only thing we have in us, I believe truly is, is the ability to create.
And creation can be infinite. It can be to yourself, it could be to an audience, but as long as you do create it, then, you know, the universe will find its way around that creation. And I firmly believe that. I've, I've [00:26:00] recorded music albums that had... You know, I still have them in the drawer, and nobody ever bought them, but I created them for me.
And then have had articles read by hundreds of thousands and millions of people. But again, they were created on the premise of exploring what's within. So, um, if you're not doing it for, for them, do it for you.
Amanda Parker: Well, I know that, um, from previous conversations that we've had, I know a lot of people enter your world through money, through better business, but by your own definition, they're actually coming into you because they're looking for something so much deeper, and they're finding you because your words are speaking to exactly that experience.
Yeah, the money is great, and you do want that. You want your businesses to succeed, but there's something far deeper that they're really looking to work through To be able to, yeah, reach that level of, quote-unquote, "outer success," let's say.
Jacob Pegs: Yeah, I mean, there, [00:27:00] there's a saying like, "Give them what they want so you can give them what they need."
So, um, you know, there, there was a story, I can't remember who, who said it, which was like you, you have a dog that had some fleas, and the person across, I think it was a father and a son or something, and he said, "Son, go, go give the, the dog some garlic." And the son runs, gives the dog garlic, and the dog won't eat it.
And he goes, "Dad, the, the dog won't eat the garlic." It's like, "No, you gotta wrap the garlic in ham and then go give the, the
Amanda Parker: ham-wrapped garlic to the dog." He's like, "Oh, yes, it worked."
Jacob Pegs: So all that to say, whenever I would speak to purpose and philosophy and ideation, that was the garlic that people needed within.
This is brilliant. But whenever I said money, "Oh, yeah, that's what I want." And then they say, you know, three weeks into our collaboration they're like, "Oh, you know, it's not about the money." I'm like, "Yes, but if I, if I said all of this [00:28:00] Modern Maker stuff, you would think I'm on some weird psychedelic drug in the middle of a forest."
Amanda Parker: If I'm like, "Here, buy this garlic. It costs a grand." You'd be like, "No, thank you. I'm good without it."
Jacob Pegs: So, I mean, also i- in that sense for me, because of, of that, I'm always a believer... Like, you know, in copywriting they say you gotta persuade someone and basically convince them to do something. I was always of the nature of I don't want to convince, I just get to show you what I'm doing, and I offer you little bite-sized chunks of, of it, whether it's free or it costs a dollar or $5.
And I welcome you in to, to test drive my little world. And if you like it, I'll make you a bigger offer. And that was the, the one offer, one post, one email a day, where I just orbit around people and I, and I invite them to go deeper if they want.
Amanda Parker: Having used some of your bite-size offers now over the last two weeks, 'cause I'm diving in [00:29:00] to Iggy and others, I'm like, "Oh," 'cause I can start to see the beautiful way that all these ideas that I've had maybe didn't have a home, and by working through these different processes in a very bite-sized way, and also there's, like, limitations that you have in there.
Mm-hmm. Like, you can only have three of something or whatever it is. I'm like, "Oh no, but I've got 23." And then you have to, like, really force yourself to think in a way that simplifies everything and makes it so much smaller and so much easier also for me, not just for the client or the consumer. It's also just in my own thought process that I can think, "Okay, this is what makes sense here in this snippet."
Jacob Pegs: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, especially in the, in the healing world, 'cause I've, I've got to mentor other people that do sort of similar things to what you do. Most people try to just sell the coaching off the bat, and it's like-
Amanda Parker: Don't you wanna just feel better, have good intuition- ... [00:30:00] trust and know yourself, and feel connected to the magic of all that is?
I mean- Yes ... honestly, there's people like me who would be like, "Yeah, I really do, please." Where can I sign up?
Jacob Pegs: Yeah. The majority of us will wanna do the-
Amanda Parker: Like, normal humans ... the
Jacob Pegs: bite-sized Will, no. We're probably in that 1 to 3% that are just like, "Yes, that's me. I'm sold."
Amanda Parker: Yeah. Um,
Jacob Pegs: but um-
Amanda Parker: Like, spirituality's great, but I need money.
Okay, okay, okay, fine, fine. Here's your money.
Jacob Pegs: And here's
Amanda Parker: a little snack. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's true, a snack. Mm-hmm. Um, so I know that to get to this place, um, where, like, we're talking, 'cause I'm like, I'm so in awe of, you know, the way that you've been able to pull this together so beautifully, but also you're a great communicator, so that helps, you know?
Kudos to you. Thank
Jacob Pegs: you.
Amanda Parker: Um, but there was definitely a healing journey that came along with being able to create such a potent, you [00:31:00] know, structure that really helps people. So you told us a bit about your backstory from the professional side and the work that you've been doing, but, like- Who were you to leave home and pack up your bags with a one-way ticket to America from Cyprus?
I mean, holy crap.
Jacob Pegs: I thought I was Jim Morrison at the time.
Amanda Parker: Yeah.
Jacob Pegs: You know?
Amanda Parker: Okay. Very good. But Jim- That'll do.
Jacob Pegs: To get to Jim Morrison and The Doors and all of that, and my love for the '70s and, and rock and classical music, uh, w- we came from a family where my parents were divorced. My mom was a Bulgarian immigrant in Cyprus.
Um, my father was not necessarily the best figure growing up. He, he had his own flaws and, you know, loved his drinks and, and his nightlife and, and whatever. And I think from a healing journey, I was always an avoidant kid who was very good independently, you know, loved my chess, loved my software stuff, and [00:32:00] dis- like mantling things.
Um, and then creativity sort of gave me that little bit of hope or a better place. And, you know, as you're growing up, you, you really can't tell 'cause you're just suppressing things or you're Going through, uh, things. So for me, g- leaving a tiny little island on the other side of the world and just getting on a one-way ticket to LA was hope, was something new, something that allowed me to, now looking back, find who I truly was outside of this little bubble.
So one of the, the biggest things was the one-way ticket, because I didn't know how I was gonna come back. I didn't know... Like, I just had two T-shirts, pair of boxers, some pants, and I, I didn't even have the guitar 'cause I couldn't afford it. I rented one when I got to, to America. But being so isolated and so alone, so far away in a different time zone at the time, uh, allowed me to think, allowed me to, for the first time, look inwards and see a [00:33:00] little boy who was hurt, um, who had so many things.
Um, that was one element of it where I realized... I think it's Carl Jung who says there's a man and a boy, and he talks about the inner child, where I said, "You know, this little seven-year-old version needs a hug." And when I started exploring these works and reading more and getting immersed, I realized some of the patterns or some of the things that were within me that kept coming up were little traumas and, you know, openings that needed acceptance and healing and overcoming, um, as one.
Then I had two or three other hits in my life that awakened me. Um, both of my parents divorced twice, so I'm a first of six. I've got a sister in Australia, another brother in Liverpool. I'm in Cyprus. Another sister in Brighton. Um, so all of us tried to do this whole escape, which was a [00:34:00] pattern. And then in my seventh or probably, no, ninth year in London, I was a software engineer, and I get a phone call from my mom and she says, "We're losing the childhood home.
I couldn't pay my debt." And I had two sisters at the time. She was like, "We're gonna be on the street." And for the first time in my life, like, I was working a normal job, you know, getting paid, trains, London life. I had to expand my heart, soul, mind into figuring out how to come up with a sum of money that was previously impossible, because I felt like a savior.
And I found the money. We now own the flat. I handed her back a set of keys. On the business side, it was all this, like pride and accomplishment and lots of tears, and on the inner side, I realized there was a, a savior that needed healing again. Like, why, why, why do you have to save the world? What happens if you said no?
Why didn't you say no? And I went through [00:35:00] self-discovery there, which was another inner child exercise and probably more to understanding what all of it was. Um, but it taught me a lot about, um, you know, why I tried to be a savior and what validation maybe I lacked or I was seeking or something in there came out on the bright side.
And then at the agency, I realized again, making money was no issue. Handling money came easy to me. The business side was all rolling. And then I had a relative at the time who was, again, a software engineer, second cousin. I invited him in, taught him all that I knew. We like were two geeks coding, doing our thing.
In hindsight, I felt like I tried to become the father to him that I didn't have, and he tried to take the shares of the company behind my back. And again there, two-year court case, trauma, healing, [00:36:00] all of this. And here again, I realized it all stemmed backwards from something from childhood. Won the court case, won the business back, did all of that, but again, the search for truth never escaped me.
You know, that, that regret or betrayal or all that anger at first then went inwards and I realized I allowed myself to get there. So there was something there to figure out. And then the last incident that was a big inner healing was at that agency, I was one of those memes that you see with the Mona Lisa and the bags under her eyes, like working 60 to 70 hours a week, seven days.
Like money was good, but I had no life. And, um, I was diagnosed with high blood pressure at age 26. I'm now 33. Um, and at the time I had a mentor who said, "You know, your wife's [00:37:00] pregnant. You're gonna have a baby in about a year. Is this the dad you wanna be when this baby grows up?" And that just hit me like a ton of bricks and I was like, broke down in tears.
I was like, "Oh my God, I need to figure this out." You know, I was someone who none of my parents came to my wedding because of this whole broken family tree and whatever. Um, did I wanna be that for this newborn child? And, and we named her Nefeli, which is Greek for clouds, right? Something open, um, something new, something high up.
Um, and that phrase broke me to the point where I was like, "You are making money out of fear for something. You don't know how much you wanna make. You're flaunting all these numbers around." But it was the first time in my life I literally said, "I'm gonna work three days a week. I'm gonna stick my mother flower [00:38:00] finger up to all the rest of the days of the week, and I'm gonna be a dad.
I get to be the dad to this person." She's now one and a half. I work three days a week. Um, I had to, on the opposite end, overcome Silence, overcome doing nothing, fight the brain when it feels useless and worthless and, you know, all sorts of things come up when you all of a sudden are used to... Well, now I realize I was probably hiding behind something and just occupying myself and filling my calendar versus keeping still and listening and going for runs.
And, you know, since, um, then I'm so grateful to, to be around my daughter and see her first steps and be present and, you know, I've run a marathon and I've done all sorts of other things that the mind wasn't able to do. But I always [00:39:00] look back, and it's probably one of the first times I've been this open, uh, on a podcast.
The- these were the four or five monumental, uh, inner events of my life that shook that tree pretty damn well, um, for me to have the, the healing that, um, needed to, to go, to happen for me to accept this version of me in the journey.
Amanda Parker: Well, thank you, first of all, for sharing all of that and sharing so openly.
And I think it's, yeah, it's remarkable 'cause so many people would've crumbled under that kind of pressure. Any one of those things would be enough to, you know, send you into a spiral or into turmoil or into, I don't know, whatever escapism, drinking or whatever it might be. And so there is this thing that you're talking about, like there's like healing from each [00:40:00] stage, but it feels like each was an initiation.
Jacob Pegs: Yes.
Amanda Parker: Like those were the moments that broke you open from whatever trance-like state you were in, that actually broke you open and initiated you into literally that next level of who you were becoming.
Jacob Pegs: Mm-hmm.
Amanda Parker: And you kept saying yes.
Jacob Pegs: Yes. '
Amanda Parker: Cause you could have also fought it and it would've been really hard for a lot longer.
And I'm not saying it wasn't hard because I'm sure that it was, but there was a part of you, and I'm getting goosebumps just saying it, like there was a part of you that kept saying yes to the next invitation and saying, "Okay, this is, these are the cards I have now. This is what happened." You know, like I have faced personally like potential legal intervention once with a job that kinda screwed me over when I left And I didn't have it in me.[00:41:00]
Like, I did not have that legal battle in me, and I chose, you know what? I can't put my energy into this 'cause it will break me, and I walked away even though I had a high possibility that I would've won the case. You didn't do that, you know? Like, I'm not putting myself down with that, it was just a different situation, but you didn't.
You chose to, "Oh, hell no. This isn't happening. I'm winning this back."
Jacob Pegs: I mean, I remember at the time, now that you brought this up, this will resonate where a therapist at the time, 'cause I, I always go to therapy. It's like a thing that I cherish and I love, and it's part of my life. Um- was the therapist came up and said, you know, a, a child who had divorced parents.
Back then, I had a room, we had a big house out on by the beach, whatever, and then my dad got remarried, and from one day to the next, I had to give up my room, give up my bed, give up all my belongings, and we moved across. And she gave me a key, I'll never forget this. She said, [00:42:00] "For the longest time in your life, you could never say it's mine."
Amanda Parker: Mm. "
Jacob Pegs: Because you always had to give away things." And when the court case happened, I actually, I remember myself, I get goosebumps. I was like, "This company is mine." And it was the first time it felt like the purpose behind it was like, you know, I, I always recall... You know how you, you might have a kid under a car and the mom develops superpowers and somehow lifts the car?
Like, it felt like me in the moment going, "This is my baby," pre real baby. "It's mine, and I'm gonna do whatever it takes inwards and outwards to get there." And now I use that key in my day-to-day whenever I have to say no or whenever I have to say yes or whatever it is. Like, is it yours? Are you gonna fight for it if it's not?
Um, and it comes in runs that I do. You know, I've ran countless marathons and won medals and things, and it's like, this thing is for me. Like, I [00:43:00] don't say it's mine, but because it is for my joy, my healing, my, you know, g- growth, you can't take it away, and it's given me lots of gifts back, I guess.
Amanda Parker: It's like a really incredible mindset, and I think, like, without having meant to describe that, I think that is the difference of why you keep building things that work, and that you love, and that people are excited about.
Because so many people, when they're starting a business or they want things to work or whatever, like, they're kinda half in, half out. They're gonna try something, but if it doesn't work on the first try, I'm just gonna cut it and, like, try something else. And there's that part of you, and maybe it is just from your upbringing and all these experiences, that's just like, "This is gonna work."
Like, "I believe in it. I'm going all in." And, like, the willingness to change direction or whatever else as you go, but there is something about that. And they say this a lot about, you know, spiritual practices. Like, [00:44:00] if you are all in, the universe will conspire with you to make it happen. If you're unsure and you're kind of in and you don't really know, like, no one can get behind that energy.
No client can get behind that energy. Like, your supporters will be like, "I believe in you most of the time." So there's, there's that drive to just if you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it all the way.
Jacob Pegs: Yeah, that's why the big fra- like the modern maker for me is the one who builds it all, but the mother flower is the one who does all the expressing.
So you gotta express it and mean it 110%, otherwise-- I mean, you, you know this better than, than I do, like energy, frequency, all of that shows up, and if you show up with mother flower energy, that thing pierces through anything and everything. But the, the gift of entrepreneurship is nowadays you can ask, you can post.
Like you don't need to invent [00:45:00] something without asking. So ask them like- What? ... "Will this thing work? I'm thinking about it."
Amanda Parker: Well, I do wanna challenge you on your statement that I know energy better than you, because I don't think that's true. I think I have fancier words, and I can describe it, and I can maybe teach it, but I don't think it's true.
I think you really-- and I think you know that, but you really are working with energy as well, and that's what people feel in your presence, or at least that's what I feel in your presence. Like I can tell that there's something more there than like You're a business wizard because there's other business wizards, you know?
Like, sorry, there's other mother flowers and all of this. Uh, not really, but, you know. Um- We're all
Jacob Pegs: accountants, right? Like-
Amanda Parker: Yeah.
Jacob Pegs: We're- ... going back to the beginning. Where's the accountants doing accounting?
Amanda Parker: I have worked very hard to not be an accountant, but...
If you could share with us, [00:46:00] because we've heard a lot of the transformative power, like from your own story of what you've built, but you've helped so many other entrepreneurs. Are there any stories of like a business or an entrepreneur that like touches your heart where you could really see a shift from the support that you were able to give them?
Jacob Pegs: Yeah. Um, for me, like in the business that I'm at, money screenshots are really common. Everybody flexes these big numbers and whatever. Uh, one of the most heartfelt moments I've had was, uh, a student who, who played basketball in a, in a European country. It wasn't the NBA, so the money was nowhere near, you know, what, what, uh, American athletes would get.
And he lived a life through all of that, and then he joined Modern Maker and, um, one day he shows up and he goes, "Man, I, I bought my kids a Christmas present for the first time in a very long time." And like that broke me. I was so [00:47:00] in awe, and I was like, "Man, thank you for sharing that." Like, it didn't even cross my mind that now you, your kids didn't have Christmas presents.
And it took me back in, you know, lots of places. The next year, the same guy goes, "I bought my wife a car. We now have a second..." I was like, "Oh my God, this is beautiful," you know? Or, um, I've had other people who've had hundreds of followers and they, they went through coaching and did things and specifically another one comes to mind where he's like, "I'm able to have my second child and my wife can stay home a little bit longer because of what you've done."
Um, these are all little, uh, little events. Um, I fed last year 300 families through 5% of proceeds that come through Modern Maker, and that's always a, a thing. So even when you came through, know that everything that comes through, 5% goes to charity in [00:48:00] memory of my granddad through his hospitality stuff.
But seeing people, like there's so many case studies where people have just come and I wouldn't let them through the door because of screening previous... And that's when, you know what? I see something in you. Like, there's this version, there's a little hustler who's gonna ship stuff and we're gonna work it out.
Or I had a guy who couldn't pay and I was like, "You know what? We're gonna do it until you can pay." Um, now he's got an agency himself and, you know, he's hired his, his family as well. It's like become a family business. Um, a lot of this stuff is on my YouTube channel too, where I just interview some of these people.
Um, and it's very free form, sort of like this. Um, but for me it goes above and beyond the actual money. It's what money can allow That is really heartfelt for me.
Amanda Parker: There's [00:49:00] this healing power of, like, helping people believe that they can do it too, and believe they can- Yeah ... support themselves and their family and make these dreams come true.
Like, it's so far beyond just-- 'Cause you do see that a lot, these like, "I had my, you know, I had a 50K month," and this and that, and you're like- Yeah ... "Yeah, okay, yay." But like- Yeah ... I'm sure that person has a deeper story they're not sharing, and if that's true. But it's really like, oh wait, what are you creating this business for?
Who are you helping? What are you able to do with it? That's like, yeah, that's the real power in that work.
Jacob Pegs: Yeah. I think once your why is bigger than your what and your how. I always told my students, like, "I believe in you more than you believe in yourself for that period of time, and it's my duty to make you believe in yourself."
Like, that's the true work that I believe, at least I love doing. But that's why, like, they come and they're like, "I thought we were gonna do business," and I'm there talking about philosophy and energy and frequency and you gotta do it from the inside out. [00:50:00] Otherwise, I mean, the, the offer and the concept, that's the easy part.
You get like GPT and Claude and all of that nowadays. The strategy's easy if you believe, um, that you can be. I think that's a part that we still grow into day in, day out. It doesn't stop, right?
Amanda Parker: And like the whole money thing, because I've had the interesting work as a coach of supporting clients who both have a lot of money and have come from money, and have a lot of guilt and unworthiness and uncertainty around that money, as well as the clients who are working their butts off and can't figure out how to get money in, and actually the pain is the same.
And like the origin of that pain is the same, so it's not about the money. It's like everything else, all the energy, the beliefs, the, like how valuable you feel, everything else that comes in. So y- you're, it sounds like you're getting to the heart of that as well in- Yeah ... business
Jacob Pegs: building. Yeah.
Amanda Parker: Right?
Jacob Pegs: Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, you, [00:51:00] the, you may scale from a 5K to a 50K month, but your trauma, your wounds, and, and your, your healing process comes with you-
Amanda Parker: Mm ...
Jacob Pegs: at a higher level. It's not going anywhere. It's
Amanda Parker: always there. Surprise. Yeah. Um, what is something that you wish you knew when you started Modern Maker?
Jacob Pegs: Oh, that's a great question.
I wish I knew how much more I was capable of, or I wish I had someone who could tell me I am capable of more because of where I sort of started. That was one. The second thing is I fought that agency lifestyle for so long, and I felt like I fought a version of me that was unhappy even though he was smothered in, you know, I was doing financially well, and I had the team, and I had all of that.
I would wake up every morning putting a mask on and pretending I was someone I wasn't. The faster you can pull [00:52:00] that trigger, and I understand you need savings, you need money, you need, you know, grounding and whatever, but if you can start as a side gig, as a side job, and build towards that thing, there's something so freeing that nowadays looking back as a solopreneur, you know, I've done four or five times more than I could have ever dreamt of back then, and I believe it is the happiness and the alignment and the inner peace that comes with it.
Because I wake up every morning and I still can't believe what, what I do. I'm like, "This is so much fun." This is like play. I get to show up and be myself as true to my offline self online Versus just being a manager hopping from meeting to meeting and sucking my soul dry. So I wish someone could just point to it and go, "You can do it, and you can do it [00:53:00] now."
Amanda Parker: And what are you most looking forward to in the future? Is there anything you're creating or building you're excited about?
Jacob Pegs: Yeah. I mean, for me, I, I went full circle. Now I'm embracing the builder again, and I'm shipping things in and out.
Amanda Parker: Of course.
Jacob Pegs: Uh, but growing up, I think the, the story where we-- where they took our house, um, led me into a bigger rabbit hole where I want to create, um, assemble and, and own my own properties.
So we-- I've, I've already now owned two or three, and I'm getting into that world, um, was one. But all that to give back to the community of where it all started. So, uh, we've given money to create schools in Malawi using basketball as a force for good. Uh, we've given back to the basketball community here in Cyprus, where we bought stake in a company and helped them go up the ladder.
[00:54:00] Um, we've given to the hospitality industry. So for me, the, the, the future will still be in the modern maker world, I think. It will always be building things and marketing the things, embracing entrepreneurship. Um, but there will be a bigger why in terms of giving back, um- beyond our family unit and things.
Like, I've always had that in me, and every time I give, it just fills a different part. Um, so I don't know if it's gonna be an NGO or whatever that may be. Something along those lines is coming.
Amanda Parker: So stay tuned. We're all looking forward to see what that looks like. And I'm going to link all of your links in the show notes and everything, but what is the, would you say, the best place for people to get in touch with you?
Where do you like to connect with them most?
Jacob Pegs: Uh, my primary platform is LinkedIn, so Jacob Pegs. Um, all the other platforms are [00:55:00] The Jacob Pegs, um, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, um, all of those. And then my email list is where I hang out daily. I send a daily email for like five years in a row or something like that.
Um, so that's also on my LinkedIn in, in my bio. But
Amanda Parker: yeah. Okay. That's amazing. So definitely anyone listening who is either creating a business for the first time or you've been building for a while and just wanna be able to do it in a way that actually feels aligned with who you are and what your dreams are, you now know who Jacob is.
Go find him. Go sign up. Um, yeah, I am, I'm so thrilled that we could have this conversation, so I'm really grateful that you took the time to be here with us and shared so much of your journey, 'cause it's really remarkable.
Jacob Pegs: Oh, thank you so much for, for having me and creating a space for people to be true to themselves.
It felt like home, so thank you. [00:56:00]
Amanda Parker: Thank you. I definitely receive that. Uh, and to everyone who has tuned in and is listening, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Don't Step on the Bluebells, and I will see you next time. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Don't Step on the Bluebells.
If you enjoyed this conversation, please give the podcast a five-star rating wherever you listen. And don't forget to hit subscribe and follow along so you never miss a new episode.