#055 The Shamanic State: Theta Consciousness and Healing with Marta Niccolai
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A steady drumbeat can shift your consciousness and unlock direct access to spiritual guidance. Dr. Marta Niccolai explains how core shamanism uses sonic driving to enter theta state, meet compassionate spirit allies, and bring back practical wisdom for daily life—no psychedelics required, just intention, drumming, and a safe container where ego rests and truth rises.
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““You know, it’s really a gift to come across this path and realize the power that lies within the work and ourselves becoming the authors of our own life. Finally, we write our own story.””
Today's Guest
Marta Niccolai
Dr Marta Niccolai is a life explorer, a seeker, and a curious soul. Originally from Pisa in Tuscany, she has lived in London since 1988. Her spiritual journey began in her early twenties with Kundalini Yoga and meditation, leading to regular travels to India and time spent in a Gandhian Ashram. Over the years she discovered that her true spiritual home is in Shamanism.
Marta’s work with the Foundation for Shamanic Studies continues to evolve. She is passionate about teaching and brings a clear, well-held structure to her workshops, guiding students into the heart of shamanic practice. Supporting people as they consolidate what they learn is central to her approach. Rituals are a particular area of interest, especially their ability to inspire and anchor meaningful change.
Alongside her shamanic work, Marta is an honorary lecturer at University College London, where she continues to enjoy supervising BA and MA students. She is deeply interested in how spiritual practices and performance meet and inform one another.
She is also training as a Death Doula, and her newest joy is playing her Indian flute. A committed environmentalist and advocate for animal welfare, Marta supports several organisations and is actively involved in her local community.
How to get in touch:
Website: https://www.shamanicstudies.co.uk/the-foundation-for-shamanic-studies
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shamanicstudies/
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Show Notes
A steady drumbeat can change your state—and your life. We sit down with Dr. Marta Nikolai to explore how core shamanism uses simple, time-tested methods to enter theta consciousness, meet compassionate spirit allies, and bring back practical guidance for daily challenges. No psychedelics required, just sonic driving, intention, and a safe container that lets the ego rest so truth can rise.
We break down brainwaves in plain language and map how the shift to theta creates dual awareness: you remain grounded in the room while traveling in non-ordinary reality. Marta shares beginner-friendly techniques for journeying, the importance of clear instructions, and why weekly practice restores spiritual authority. We talk about tailored rituals that make change stick, from small acts with deep meaning to integration steps that keep the wisdom in your body, schedule, and relationships.
The conversation also honors boundaries and timing. Not all sessions flow—and that’s okay. Learning when to pause, refer, or say “not today” protects the work and the client. Marta explains when to seek a practitioner, how community circles amplify healing, and why in-person drumming and rattling matter in a hyper-visual, trend-chasing world. Her personal path—from accounting to academia to shamanic teaching—illustrates how life cracks open when you follow the quiet call of spirit and stay with a simple practice long enough to master it.
If you’re curious about shamanic journeying, theta states, spirit guides, or the Foundation for Shamanic Studies, this is a clear, grounded starting point. Listen, learn the basics, and try one weekly journey to see what unfolds. If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help others find the path. What’s the first question you’d take to your guides?
Key Takeaways
The Shamanic State is Accessible to Everyone: You don't need special gifts or years of training your nervous system already knows how to shift states.
This Isn't About Belief, It's About Experience: shamanism is based on direct personal experience with spirits in non-ordinary reality. You're not asked to believe anything—you're invited to try it and see what happens.
Journeying is controlled and voluntary (you’re not disappearing into a void — you can come back anytime).
Journey for Anything—Big or Small: This practice isn't just for major healing crises. Journey weekly for support, guidance on daily challengesIf something feels off, you don’t have to figure it out alone — sometimes the most powerful step is simply asking for help.
Healing doesn’t come from “perfect performance” — it comes through relationship, preparation, and integrity.
What We Talked About
Marta's journey from unhappy accountant to spiritual seeker to shamanic teacher—and the car accident that cracked everything open
What “altered states” actually are — and why they’re more normal than we think
“Stepping outside time” and the difference between ordinary and non-ordinary reality
Theta brainwaves: why shamanic journeying overlaps with meditation + creativity
What beginners often experience the first time the drum starts
The role of power animals as spiritual allies who provide guidance, protection, and yes, sometimes just companionship
When to journey for yourself vs. when to seek a practitioner
Why rituals matter so much for integration—and how spirits prescribe unique, personal rituals for each person's healing
Why modern spiritual culture's "do all the things" approach misses the point—and how mastering one practice deeply changes everything
Guest Quotes
"You know, it's really a gift to come across this path and realize the power that lies within the work and ourselves becoming the authors of our own life. Finally, we write our own story."
"All knowledge comes from spirits. All we need to do is to bring that knowledge, that power, the information into ordinary reality."
"When we are in theta state, there is no ego, and that means there are no worries, there is no interference from the mind. It's really, if I had to describe it, I would say it's a blissful state."
"Many students say, I've come home. I’ve finally come home. It's a homecoming."
"I love spirits so much. I'm passionate and that's why I want to give it, I want to give that knowledge to people."
"I think it's so important to be able to say to somebody else, I need help, rather than feeling I can do it all by myself."
"We need community in this fragmented world. We need community."
"I know some people who just go for a picnic with their power animal. Really. Yes. Have some time with them. Just spend some time with them."
Resources to Learn More
Michael Harner + his book The Way of the Shaman
The Foundation for Shamanic Studies (Where Marta Teaches)
Carlos Castaneda - The Teachings of Don Juan
Teachers & Influences:
Michael Harner - The anthropologist who studied indigenous shamanic cultures across continents and distilled their common practices into core shamanism; founder of the Foundation for Shamanic Studies
Osho (Rajneesh) - Spiritual teacher whose Kundalini meditation practices opened new doors for Marta during her seeking years
Sandra Ingerman - Shamanic teacher and author whose work helped Amanda begin her own journey
Soul (Pixar) - Amanda references this film's beautiful depiction of flow states and alternate dimensions that mirrors the shamanic journey experience
Cultural Traditions Mentioned:
Lakota shamanism
Mongolian shamanism
Tibetan shamanism
Siberian shamanism
Aboriginal Australian shamanism
Brazilian indigenous medicine traditions
Terms & Tools to Dig Deeper
Altered State of Consciousness: A voluntary shift in awareness away from ordinary waking consciousness, allowing access to non-ordinary reality where spirits can be contacted.
Attachment/Possession: An energetic presence or entity that doesn't belong to someone but has temporarily found a home with them, causing them to feel "not themselves" or exhibit uncharacteristic behaviors.
Ayahuasca: A plant medicine used in indigenous Amazonian traditions; anthropologist Michael Harner's first experience with altered states came through ayahuasca ceremony, which led him to study shamanic practices worldwide.
Beta Brainwave State: The ordinary waking state characterized by daily activity, focus, and mental work.
Clap Sticks: Traditional Aboriginal Australian sonic driving tools—sticks beaten together to create the rhythmic sound that induces shamanic states.
Consciousness: As Marta defines it, the awareness of internal and external stimuli; in shamanic practice, this awareness can voluntarily shift between ordinary and non-ordinary reality.
Core Shamanism: Michael Harner's brilliant contribution—the fundamental practices found in shamanic cultures worldwide once you strip away specific cultural elements like particular colors, chants, or attire. It's the universal method beneath diverse traditions.
Delta Brainwave State: The brainwave pattern associated with deep sleep.
Depossession Work: Shamanic healing practice that addresses spiritual attachments or entities. The healing is often instantaneous—Marta describes clients literally becoming rosier and lighter the moment the attachment is released.
Diagnostic Journey: A shamanic journey undertaken specifically to understand the spiritual root cause of an issue before proceeding with healing. It's like asking the spirits, "What's actually going on here?" before jumping into solutions.
Drum/Drumming: The primary tool for sonic driving in shamanic practice. Monotonous beating at 4-7 beats per second induces theta state and allows practitioners to enter non-ordinary reality. The drum is your vehicle for traveling between worlds.
EEG (Electroencephalogram): Medical device that records brainwave patterns and has scientifically measured and validated the theta state achieved during shamanic journeying.
Family Shamanism: The known challenge of journeying for family members or partners—because you know them so well, it's difficult to "hollow out" and empty yourself of preconceived knowledge, which can influence the journey. Requires exceptional skill to do well.
Foundation for Shamanic Studies: The organization founded by Michael Harner with headquarters in Los Angeles and sister organization in Vienna; dedicated to preserving and teaching core shamanic practices. Marta's spiritual home and where she teaches.
Gamma Brainwave State: A state of very focused, intense mental activity and concentrated brain work.
Integration Work: The sacred process of bringing shamanic healing into your everyday life, usually through rituals prescribed by spirits during the journey. Might be anything from sewing a mantra into cloth to performing specific movements—each ritual is uniquely tailored to the person.
Kundalini Meditation: A spiritual practice from the Osho tradition that opened Marta's path to spiritual seeking after her car accident; her first experience with altered states before discovering shamanism.
Lower World: In the shamanic map, one of the realms of non-ordinary reality where power animals and nature spirits dwell; accessed by journeying downward through roots, caves, or water.
Merging: The practice of blending or uniting with your power animal or spiritual guides in non-ordinary reality; a way of receiving their qualities, wisdom, and support directly.
Monotonous Drumming: The specific type of drumming required for shamanic journeying—steady, repetitive beating at 4-7 beats per second with no variation. This consistency is what shifts brainwaves into theta state.
Mouth Harp: An alternative sonic driving instrument that creates sound inside your head; can be used for journeying in addition to or instead of external drumming.
Non-Ordinary Reality: The spiritual dimension that exists outside our everyday three-dimensional, time-based world. This is where spirits live, where power animals roam, where teachers wait to share their wisdom. You access it by stepping outside of time.
Ordinary Reality: The empirical, three-dimensional, time-based world we inhabit in everyday waking consciousness; the reality governed by clocks, physical laws, and linear cause-and-effect.
Power Animal: Your primary spiritual ally in animal form who provides protection, guidance, and power. Many people describe meeting their power animal as a reunion with someone they've always known. Marta's appeared first as a puppy-like presence before growing into its full form.
Pre-Journey: A technique Marta uses with beginners where she drums randomly, then more monotonously, while students notice how their perception of the room changes—helping them understand that overlapping realities and perception shifts are natural.
Rattle: A shamanic tool used for sonic driving, healing work, and ceremonial purposes; can be used similarly to the drum for inducing altered states. Each rattle has its own voice and energy.
Ritual: Intentional ceremonial actions that hold power to create change in ordinary reality. In our modern world, we've reduced most rituals to brushing teeth or putting on pajamas—shamanism restores ritual to its rightful place as a transformer of consciousness and circumstance.
Shamanic Journey: The practice of voluntarily entering an altered state (through sonic driving) to travel to non-ordinary reality and meet with spiritual guides. You can journey for yourself weekly, or a practitioner can journey on your behalf for deeper healing work.
Shamanic State of Consciousness: The theta brainwave state characterized by absence of ego, stepping outside time, and access to non-ordinary reality where spirits can be contacted; a blissful state without worry or mental interference.
Sonic Driving: The use of repetitive sound—primarily drumming or rattling at specific frequencies (4-7 beats per second)—to naturally shift consciousness into theta state.
Spirits: The compassionate, all-knowing beings who exist in non-ordinary reality. Marta describes them as loving librarians who pull out exactly the information you need. All knowledge in shamanism comes from spirits—the practitioner is simply the bridge who brings that knowledge back.
Stepping Outside Time: A key concept in shamanism—since ordinary reality is time-based, transcending time allows you to enter non-ordinary reality where spirits exist. This isn't just metaphorical; it's the actual mechanism for accessing spiritual dimensions.
Theta Brainwave State: The sweet spot of shamanic journeying—where your brain waves slow down (4-7 Hz), your ego dissolves, time becomes irrelevant, and you can access non-ordinary reality. The same state found in deep meditation, heightened creativity, and daydreaming. Scientifically measurable and feels like coming home.
Upper World: In the shamanic map, one of the realms of non-ordinary reality where teachers in human or celestial form and ascended guides reside; accessed by journeying upward through trees, mountains, or clouds.
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Episode Transcript
055 - How to Enter Altered States of Consciousness with Marta Niccolai
[00:00:00] Marta Niccolai: You know, it's really a gift to come across this path and realize. The power that lies within the work and ourselves becoming the authors of our own life. Finally, we write our own story.
[00:00:22] Amanda Parker: Welcome to Don't Step on the Bluebells, the podcast for personal healing and transformation takes center stage. I'm your host Amanda Parker, and I'm a fellow seeker on the journey of personal growth. Join me as I delve into the stories of gifted healers. Guides and everyday people who have experienced remarkable transformations.
[00:00:41] Listen in as they share their practical wisdom to enrich your everyday life. And don't forget to hit, subscribe and never miss a new episode. Welcome to today's episode of Don't Step On the Bluebells. I am here with a very special guest today, Marta Niccolai, Dr. Marta Niccolai, who is a teacher, first and foremost, a teacher that I have met through my own path of studying shamanism, but she's also a lecturer at the university and wears many different hats throughout what it is that she brings into the world.
[00:01:19] I'm so honored to have you here today to talk about a topic that I know is very close to both of our hearts, but something that I know you've dedicated so much time and energy to. So we're gonna be hearing from Martha all about altered states of consciousness, and I'm just so excited to have you here, Marta.
[00:01:39] Thank you for being here.
[00:01:41] Marta Niccolai: Amanda, thank you so, so much. It's an honor to be here on your podcast series. Don't step on the blue belts. And yes, I'm here to talk about the shamanic state of consciousness. Um, and I'm here because I love spirits. I, I love the opportunity to talk about them primarily. Okay, so thank you.
[00:02:03] So I have been teaching shamanism and step into the role of a shaman practitioner for a number of years now, and um, I know that there is great power in shamanic work and that power is accessible to all, uh, but. To access this power, we need the shamanic state of consciousness without which nothing happens.
[00:02:32] And when we go into the shamanic state of consciousness, we meet spiritual lies. They bring knowledge, they bring information, they bring support and healing. So. Probably you understand now why the shamanic state of consciousness is really, really paramount. For the work to happen in, um, shaman books, any shaman book would mention that shamans all over the world access or voluntarily enter a trance or alter state of consciousness or a shaman state of consciousness, um, to perform specific functions for the community.
[00:03:19] In the book, the way the shaman Michael Harner, um, who brought back shamanism into the Western world, um, explains how stepping out time is very important. In order to reach out to spirits. Now, um, stepping outside time, why? I'm going to tell kind of, you know, some maybe re kind of share some technical information, but this is necessary in order to understand how it is.
[00:03:52] Beautiful body of work is stepping outside. Time is essential to move out of this reality. Amanda, the reality we are in. It's empirical. It's three-dimensional and it's time-based. So if we step outside this time, we enter a different reality. A reality that is non-ordinary, and that's where we encounter spirits.
[00:04:26] That's where spirits are found. To make it more clear, we say that we, we, uh, communicate with them. We go and meet them through the shaman's map, which is made of the upper world and the lower world, which a place of transcendence and where spirits who are described as all knowing, compassionate, loving.
[00:04:55] Can be found and all knowledge. This is the beauty of shamanism. All knowledge comes from spirits. All we need to do is to bring that knowledge, that power, the information into ordinary reality, what is important, and that is described and mentioned in uh. Um, books about shamanism is that this is done by the shaman voluntarily at will, and equally voluntarily.
[00:05:30] We step out of the non-ordinary reality and we come back into this reality. It's very safe and is time tested, time tested, and the reason probably why actually without probably the reason why it has lasted all this time, thousands of years, must be because it works, how it is done, that we step outside time and we enter this different reality.
[00:06:02] Well, even if Michael Harner in his book says, and shares that for him, he was, um, by taking the ayahuasca because as a anthropologist in training, he was observing indigenous coaches and he was asked to take part to the ceremony to understand what was really happening. By studying different shamanic cultures in North and South American Siberia, Tibetan Mongolia found out that the, um, typical way to access the different reality and stepping out of time is sonic driving.
[00:06:41] Primarily the instrument is the drum. It can be rattled as well. Primarily is the drum in, uh, the, with the Aboriginal in, uh, um, Australia. They use clap sticks that they beat together. It can also be done with sound in our head with the mouth harp. Let's say that primarily it is the drum and, uh, the effect of the drum on brainwaves is actually recorded by EEG.
[00:07:17] A EG, ordinary reality consciousness. And by the way, what do we mean by consciousness? I been used this term.
[00:07:25] Amanda Parker: We can dive into that. Definitely. Yes.
[00:07:28] Marta Niccolai: So it's an awareness of internal and external stimuli and in, um, our ordinary reality that has been described, um, with brainwaves and names. So we have the alpha brainwave, that's when we are relaxed.
[00:07:49] Maybe an afternoon nap on the sofa. That's kind of brainwaves. Then we have the better brainwaves, and that's activity that is really daily brain activity focus and so on. Delta brain waves, sleep. That's the sleep state. Gamma. Very focused, very lots of mind work, lots of brain work, lots of mind work. And then we come to the theater state and the theater is found in, uh uh, for instance, deep meditation, heightened creativity, daydreaming, and the shamanic state of consciousness.
[00:08:35] That's the theater state, and the beauty of it is that when we are in that state, there is no ego, and that means that there are no worries, there is no interference from the mind. It's really, if I had to describe it, I would say it's a blissful state in the absence of the ego. And time. We are in a blissful state when we access the theater state.
[00:09:04] That's the Anii journey and means we are traveling to a different reality to meet spirits.
[00:09:12] Amanda Parker: Let me ask you for a moment, because for someone who's listening who maybe doesn't have as much experience going into Theta State or traveling, I know that you teach also foundational courses in this, so you, you have the wisdom here, but.
[00:09:28] What does that actually look like for someone who's a total beginner and says, what does it mean to go into non-ordinary states or into theta state? And an example would be, 'cause I'll just share my experience. When I first started training in Shamanism, the idea of going into theta to the beat of a drum was so absolutely foreign to me because I only knew how to do that through.
[00:09:56] Like very certain circumstances of meditation and preparing my space. So having to learn such a different way of accessing, which now feels very natural, but I didn't even know what that really meant in the beginning.
[00:10:11] Marta Niccolai: Thank you, Amanda. That's really important to, um, to mention. So basically to keep, to kind of bring it down to a simple language we have.
[00:10:25] Through hearing the drum beats at four to seven beats per second. So very monotonous, drumming, nothing else. Very monotonous. Drumming. Your brainwaves change, so your perceptions change as well. In the way of the shaman workshop, which is for beginners, we actually do, um, a pre journey where, uh, they close their eyes and I just drum randomly.
[00:10:54] Then more monotonously, and I asked them to pay attention to how the room changes. So the perception of the room changes. You'd be surprised. Many of them say, I just saw animals or just the fountain. Oh, there were rumor ruins or other stuff. Okay. Oh, I saw. Kind of a, you know, an angelic figure or, um, um, I saw a historical figure.
[00:11:24] You know, they, they say that and they relax because they understand that actually this overlapping of realities can happen any moment you watch a film. That a scene reminds you of something beginning. It begins to trigger a memory or a dream that you had recently, and then for a moment you have these two realities over overlapping.
[00:11:49] If my drumming persists at a monotonous pit, then you, you, your consciousness moods into a different space and I give you clear instructions on where to go, how to access an non-ordinary reality.
[00:12:07] Amanda Parker: So you don't have to think for yourself in the moment, oh, where should I go? What's gonna happen? It's that you have that base layer of the drum and then you already know what your mission and intention is for going in.
[00:12:18] Marta Niccolai: Absolutely. Absolutely. You have to kind of a little bit. Abandon yourself to the experience. Trusting that I hold the space, trusting that it's time tested, trusting that there is a circle of people together, and that the instructions are clear and other people before you have. Done it like you, Amanda.
[00:12:40] Amanda Parker: It reminds me a bit of a scene from, I think it was a Pixar movie called Flow, if I'm not mistaken.
[00:12:47] And it's all about this character who was a saxophone player, and it's about what happens when he would get into that musical flow. But he decides one day he doesn't want to play the instrument anymore, and I can't remember the details of the story, but they take him through this whole thing of being able to enter this.
[00:13:07] Other realm. This other dimension where he can then see other people in their own flow. State bubbles, painting or playing the piano or writing or playing with the dog, whatever it is.
[00:13:18] Marta Niccolai: I'm going to write down the film. Thank you.
[00:13:20] Amanda Parker: Oh, it was such a beautiful, it just sounds like what you're describing 'cause it was such a beautiful visual, visual for that state that can cross over in our daily lives that it doesn't have to be something special, but that we can also enter.
[00:13:36] In special circumstances or in community or under the guide of a teacher?
[00:13:41] Marta Niccolai: Absolutely. Absolutely. And once you enter it for the first time and you realize the peace, love, beauty, um, compassion that is in this, you know, absence of time of an ordinary reality where you meet spirits that come to you in animal or human form and you communicate with them.
[00:14:05] You really many students say, I've come home. I finally come home. It's a homecoming and it's a controlled state. 'cause anytime you can come out of it, there's no one forcing you to stay. And the interesting feature of it is that you can be simultaneously aware of this reality. So if it doors, lamps, you can hear it whilst at the same time being immersed in your journey.
[00:14:31] So you make a choice of carrying on with the journey of saying, I stop and see what it is, for instance. Yeah.
[00:14:37] Mm-hmm.
[00:14:38] Amanda Parker: So, so you're never so far in or so far gone that you wouldn't be able to be aware of what's happening around you if you need to be? No.
[00:14:46] Marta Niccolai: No. In indigenous coaches there are showmans who travel for a very, very long time and they have assistance, but in our 15 minutes journey or half an hour, it's very, very safe.
[00:14:58] Amanda. Thank you.
[00:15:00] Amanda Parker: Well, what if we one day just go on a week long journey and see what happens?
[00:15:04] Marta Niccolai: I can facilitate that.
[00:15:06] Amanda Parker: Yes. I'm happy. Wow. Yeah. Good. Thank you.
[00:15:09] Marta Niccolai: Thank you so. Yes. So we come back bringing knowledge, power, information, support. We receive it in this, um, different reality and we come back. Uh, sometimes people say, I feel rejuvenated.
[00:15:29] I feel more empowered. And this is what shamanism is about actually. It's about meeting your spiritual guides so that you are. Empowered you. You have your spiritual authority back with you. I have no one telling you what to believe in. It's not based on belief, it's based on experience.
[00:15:54] Amanda Parker: When people are going into these states, are they, would this be equivalent to, for example, if I have a morning ritual speaking to my guides or angels or different ancestors?
[00:16:05] So that's my practice personally and. I can ask them anything or I can talk to them about anything that's important for me. Would that be the same? People can bring any topic in like healing or daily struggles or. You know, the baby is not sleeping. What do I do?
[00:16:23] Marta Niccolai: A absolutely thank you, Amanda, for being so, you know, down to earth and practical because we, you know, I, I don't want anyone to believe that you, you do a shaman journey when you have big troubles.
[00:16:35] So your absolute, your life is upside down. No, you know, I advise to journey once a week. Possible to weave it into the patterns of your life because, uh, it brings you support because you can say, I had such a terrible week, can I stay with you a little bit to your power animal? And you see the effect of it.
[00:16:58] It's not an imagination. It's something that you feel in yourselves. It's really bringing change. So that's why you regain your spiritual authority, because you can receive all that through the shaman journey. Definitely. Definitely. Amanda, thank you. It's very important. I know some people who just go for a picnic with their power on.
[00:17:20] Really? Yes. Have some time with them. Yeah, just spend some time with them. Transcending time in order to go and meet transcended beings. Um, who have gone well beyond anything to do with being human, the beauty and the complexity of it who have an incredible, limitless knowledge of any one of us. My impression actually, when I go and ask them a question about myself or more likely about.
[00:17:56] See a client is not being with a lab librarian and you say, Amanda, I have a question on behalf of Amanda. You know my client. And they go, mm, Amanda, yes. They pick out the book where there is Amanda's story in it, and they see. That's what she needs. That's what she, they know everything. They know so much.
[00:18:25] Um, I don't know after many years how else I could do my healing because all I need to do is to bring it back. And by saying all I need to do, I don't mean it's easy because it needs to have a, a form to it to deliver it. Um. With power and support for the client. You know, some people come and they don't, um, have any form of spirituality.
[00:18:52] Some people come and they're on a spiritual path for years. So, you know there is a difference. There is a difference. Yeah.
[00:19:01] Amanda Parker: So it's a difference in how they receive it or how you receive the information for them.
[00:19:06] Marta Niccolai: Never a difference in the way I receive the information is through my spirits, but in the way you have, in the way you deliver it so that it becomes meaningful and applicable to life and everything.
[00:19:18] Even integration work comes from spirit. They tell me, and oftentimes, and I think that is because of the way I work as well, what I believe is important through rituals. Rituals are very important, I think, sadly, in our life. It become like brushing our teeth most of the times in the morning, putting our pajama on at night.
[00:19:46] But we can explain the power of rituals to change reality, to change, to bring change into our life, for sure. Yes.
[00:19:58] Amanda Parker: Any rituals you have in mind? Anything that comes to mind when you say that those are specifically important?
[00:20:04] Marta Niccolai: No, because they're tailor made for each person. Sometimes they may really sound, um, unusual.
[00:20:14] Like I remember once I, this is that memory stick to me because it was really not just a movement or a series of movement or something to write. It was get a piece of cloth. From an old dress and sew, sew on it, sew it. And every time she was sewing, she was to recite a mantra. And then you explain how we recite a mantra so that it retains power.
[00:20:44] So the res, it's my responsibility, whereas the actual healing is not my responsibility. 'cause it comes from spirits
[00:20:51] Amanda Parker: and it
[00:20:52] comes
[00:20:52] Amanda Parker: through you.
[00:20:53] Marta Niccolai: Through me, yes. But without the state of consciousness. It wouldn't be possible.
[00:20:59] Amanda Parker: I think that's a really powerful distinction, and I've seen it in different spiritual traditions, but it's really powerful to note that like, well, most healers, definitely, I'd say all healers in their integrity.
[00:21:17] The work is coming through them. It's not them doing the work. They're not, you know, the guru on the stage. They are asking for help from the spirit world to offer you what you need and. I think for me as a healer who I'd say I'm still, you know, new in many ways, some ways I'm much more experienced, some ways I'm still like, you know, walking the baby steps.
[00:21:42] But in the beginning, especially the first few years, my God, did I feel pressure to deliver to like be able to get someone a result. And like I remember when I first learned Reiki. I had physical pain in my whole body, just trying to hold my hands in the right position. And it was, I was completely out of alignment with any connection.
[00:22:07] It was what I needed to go through. But I do remember carrying that sense of responsibility that I needed to figure this out. And I'd say it's only in the last year, maybe two, that I started to actually realize. What happens when I let that go and how much easier everything flows.
[00:22:24] Marta Niccolai: I really connect with what you say, Amanda, and for me, at the beginning it was taking my breath away.
[00:22:31] I remember I thought, you know, I don't want to do it. And now I know the healing happens because I know my preparation and preparation is. Key to the work probably for you as well. And I know how deeply I can go with my shamanic state of consciousness, but there's always holding that space throughout the whole session and the before, the healing and after the healing, which is the my responsibility.
[00:23:01] And so every time it's a new time, it's new. So legal apprehension is probably always there because a client comes and you know, it's me and the client and the the past and the present or the client. Sometimes there is more like entities, so you have to pay attention to quite a lot. Quite a lot in Mongo.
[00:23:29] And somebody told me once that, um, having lived for a long time with Lakota in North America, um, a shaman there, if they don't feel the day is the right day to do a healing work, even if you're booked, they say not today, and they send you away. That gave me kind of permission, not that I cancel my clients, but to take.
[00:23:55] Time off if I need it. I don't want to feel the pressure that I have to be there all the time. If my body, mind, soul, family, uh, you know, calls my attention.
[00:24:07] Amanda Parker: And it also sounds like permission to, uh. Because I've, I've given readings for people who are not really open and it is like pulling teeth. It's so hard and I'm learning to discern that better, that when I go into a space that first of all to recognize, okay, it's not just me.
[00:24:25] I'm not just suddenly today unable to do what I could do all week or all month or whatever. That there is something in that to say, Hey, listen, I'm actually. I'm not able to support you in the way that you need today to really own that and honor that too. That, that still makes me afraid, I'll be honest, but I'm recognizing the difference between someone who's really open to receive and it flows and it, it's so energizing and empowering for us both.
[00:24:57] And then in the moment when, you know there. Not so open. And I don't just mean scared or nervous, I mean really like not something's blocked.
[00:25:07] Marta Niccolai: Something is blocked and I can interpret it in um, different ways. It can also be that on a, um, psychological level, there are, um, complex layers there that needs to be seen by a specialist.
[00:25:25] And sometimes it's very difficult to convey that 'cause they. You know, they kind of, you know, don't want to hear, but, you know, um, gently and uh, uh, giving something, because there's always something that comes with the session. There's always something that comes. Yeah. And this felt, whether it lasts or not is a different matter, but it is felt, and then you can gently say, like you say.
[00:25:50] I, I'm not, I'm sorry. I cannot support you, um, any further than what I've done. So I think they're so honest to say that Amanda, rather than coming across as all powerful 'cause spirits are all powerful, but sometimes in that relationship, something, yes, it's not working. Wonderful. Thank you. Starting a healing journey for anyone.
[00:26:16] It's a big. Appointment in life. It's a turning point, big appointment. So I really always honor that. Whether they're starting the healing path, whether they are halfway through it, whether it comes at the end, the shaman session of a long journey or the beginning of a long journey, um, it's absolutely crucial to honor that because we all know.
[00:26:46] That might take a while, and we want to encourage people this wonderful journey that is not always pleasant, that it might take a long time, but that gives us a huge, immense reward, huge immense reward of stepping into our true self. And maybe becoming the authors of our own life. Finally, we write our own story and appreciate life more fully.
[00:27:24] You know, feeling part of it. I think it's, I. Yeah, it's the journey really in this life for me. I dunno for you, but for me it has been the most important journey of my life. The healing one. Yeah.
[00:27:43] Amanda Parker: I can just feel the power in your words as you're speaking them. I already feel just so calmed listening to that because I think there's this.
[00:27:56] Perception in today's world, and especially me, I'm, I'm online a lot. I work in a lot of like online business, online marketing. That's where I connect with a lot of people. And you have this false need to be always available, always online, always thinking, keeping up with the latest technology. And I do love tech.
[00:28:17] Like I just genuinely love learning and playing and experimenting, but. You feel like you're behind, like you're supposed to be somewhere. You should have already gotten somewhere, and I think the same is happening. With spirituality as well that it's become more popular again, which is great because people are looking for meaning.
[00:28:41] I mean, that's the journey that I'm on. But you feel like, okay, now I need to go, you know, do a Kundalini awakening and then do my seven mantras and then go to this ayahuasca retreat and then, and it's like frenetic. And you, you think that this is spiritual awakening, but it's actually just. A to-do list.
[00:29:00] Marta Niccolai: A marathon.
[00:29:01] Yes.
[00:29:02] Amanda Parker: Yeah, it is. It is. And that's, I don't wanna be so judgmental 'cause we always, we reach what we need when we need it and it will come to us in that time. But I still feel there's not as many teachers like yourself and some other guests that I've had on the podcast who really have been doing this for decades, that really ground.
[00:29:25] What that experience is because someone who's two years out of an awakening is still in the thick of the mud trying to find their way to the other side.
[00:29:36] Marta Niccolai: If I remember a student in a recent advanced workshop who came to me at the end and said, do you know about marta? You are convinced. And that's why you're convincing.
[00:29:49] And I love Yes. Well convinced means that I know the power of spirits. I know the power of the work. I know it. I just know it. Okay. So, and I love spirits so much. I'm passionate and that's why I want to give it, I want to give that knowledge. People. People, and I want to encourage them to do something that nowadays, Amanda, very much like you said, I want to do this and that and that, but I bring them down to something very simple and basic.
[00:30:19] Do the journey. Stick to it for a while. Don't jump onto anything else for a while. Master it. Make it yours. Then you can learn something else. And it's people, my feeling is that because of the world, the way the world is at, you know, where we live in especially Hypervisual world, we live in a society, it's hypervisual.
[00:30:46] Um, they want kind of, you know, mm, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the quantity, not the quality. It's the quantity, jumping from one workshop to the other, and also what I value about the work I do, and I, I go very rarely doing online work, to be honest. It's primarily in person because I value community. I value being physically together, supporting each other, singing together.
[00:31:22] Um, doing healing work for each other, sh sharing our experience of a shaman journey, seeing the diversity of it. We need community in this fragmented world. We need community. So that, that I feel is another kind of task that I feel comes together with my shamanic work. Let's stay together. Let's, let's.
[00:31:48] Sometimes do community healing. Let's feel the power of singing and rattling together as you have experienced. 'cause you've been, you've done it and probably you do it in your own work as well.
[00:32:01] Amanda Parker: Oh, I've got some. I have some new rattles I'm working with and I really love them. The energy of the, I mean, I love the tools, so I definitely always have my eyes and energy open, but.
[00:32:16] I'd say that I'm starting to really feel the difference of each instrument in a way that I didn't used to. It used to just be, okay, cool, I've got my drum, and now I'm like, if I'm traveling, I find like I miss my drum. I just like feel like I wish I had it with me. And these, I have a beautiful rattle that I got very recently from a Brazilian community.
[00:32:41] So there was a. A Brazilian medicine man came to town. Andrea Arre had hosted an event. Oh yeah,
[00:32:48] Marta Niccolai: I saw. Yes, I saw it
[00:32:49] Amanda Parker: on. Yeah, so we could make our own rattles, which was beautiful. But he also brought some that the local community had made and it has this black Jaguar painted on it, and it's so. Magnificent.
[00:33:04] So I don't even know why I'm sharing that now. I forget my thread, but I just suddenly felt my rattle calling my attention. '
[00:33:11] Marta Niccolai: cause we did mention, you know, being together, drumming a rattling. Yeah. And you went beautifully into the importance of getting to know your instruments. Not just banging the drum, but getting to hear the voice of the drum.
[00:33:23] And that's why we become jealous of these instruments because we share so much. You know, we say so much. The drum, the drum speaks to us and we. It's ours, you know, that's why.
[00:33:34] Amanda Parker: Back off, this is my drum. So I have a question. 'cause we talked about this. Um, you and I have spoken about this briefly in other conversations, but this practice, so shamanism in general, but also this practice of going into these altered states.
[00:33:54] I know it's very important to know people can do that for themselves, for their own healing, but that they can also still seek support from others. And I feel like there's something important I'd love to hear from you about, because I know even on my own journey, I thought I had to get it all myself.
[00:34:16] Then I didn't wanna ask for help because I had learned how to do this and I thought I'm supposed to know. So maybe there's something that you can share about that, you know, that personal healing journey, but also reaching out and getting that support that you need as you're moving through.
[00:34:30] Marta Niccolai: Thank you, Amanda.
[00:34:31] In fact, when I say getting your own healing. Don't only refer to energy, power work done, um, in the sense of, uh, bringing back a soul part by yourself, for instance, or taking some energy out that is not necessarily helpful and maybe doesn't belong to you. I actually mean spending time in an ordinary reality, spending time by.
[00:35:00] Your spiritual guys and merging with them. Merging with them. So I mean, going there to do a work that is supportive when we come to, I feel something is not right in my life. Um, and you name a pattern or you name weaknesses that you suddenly feel or something around. I feel I'm not myself any longer. And so on and so forth.
[00:35:30] That is when you need to go and see a shaman killer. It is a known fact, as well known, just sharing as it comes. Okay. It is also well known fact that when we go with questions like, I don't know which path to go or what, what is the next step in terms of, uh, my job, my work life? It's very difficult to get answers because we know ourselves.
[00:35:56] Very well, and we, unless we really, really hollowed out and we, um, kind of, we empty ourselves of the knowledge that we have of ourselves, we tend to influence the journey. Whereas a practitioner doesn't know you, it doesn't know you at all, so it makes it really easy for them to retrieve information. So family shamanism is known to have poor quality, but that's trust For those who are really, really able to empty themselves of whatever information they have on a partner, on a family member, uh, they can do a journey and ask a question.
[00:36:42] I also feel that it is so important to be able to say to somebody else. I need help rather than feeling I can do it all by myself. So you enter into communication with another person and um, uh, in that relationship for a brief time, for a brief moment in time, you entrust somebody else with your soul, and that is equally.
[00:37:13] Important community work. It's important to delegate somebody else whom you trust. Obviously you don't just go to anyone. You have to feel, Hmm, yes, I can try this practitioner. Um, you entrust somebody else with your soul that I think also to be able to say, I re I really value that. Those words I need help.
[00:37:37] Yes. For, for that reason, I really recommend seeing a shaman practitioner. So I recommend two things. One is learning the shaman journey. So you have your support system and the other one is to go for a healing when you really feel you need one. Um, because there is so much more that come when we are together with somebody else who has the spirits of the work, who has the, um, healing words.
[00:38:09] That can, uh, uh, that we need to hear and the right integration work that maybe most of the times we do together with the practitioner because we haven't done it before. So, you know, we feel, we don't feel comfortable in doing it and it's beautiful because it's like it, the togetherness of it is beautiful.
[00:38:33] I love it. Really like it to accompany somebody to go to a tree asking how can I integrate my healing into my life?
[00:38:43] Amanda Parker: Would you have any stories of maybe a healing that either you experienced or that you facilitated? Is there any story that maybe comes to mind that you'd be able to share with us just to show some of the power of what's really possible here?
[00:39:01] Marta Niccolai: So I don't keep notes of my shaman killing because they're not for me, and I throw them away. To be honest, the client makes, makes notes at the end of the session and I forget, but I just want to share something because every time it happens, it's really, really, really potent. Um, uh, I do the possession work and um, I have.
[00:39:30] My way of given to me by spirits to see if there is anyone there. If there is, there is kind of a lost soul that found a temporary home leaning on my client. And when that happens, which I normally don't say beforehand. The reaction of the client is immediate, whilst the healing normally may take time to, to, to become, um, more part of the reality and the life of a client.
[00:40:06] In that instance of aion, the client changes instantly, and I say they voice it. Oh gosh, I feel so much lighter. And they mild. And if you give them a glass of water, hmm, they really enjoy that glass of water as if it had a new flavor or the cheeks become rosy. It's really visible and that is something that dwells, that stays on my mind.
[00:40:35] Even if I don't remember the individual clients, I remember the reactions.
[00:40:40] Amanda Parker: They wouldn't frame it that way when they come in, right? They wouldn't know, oh my God, I have an entity. They would just say, I don't feel like myself, or I feel tired, or.
[00:40:49] Marta Niccolai: Exactly that, Amanda, or they say I'm doing things, you know, that, um, you know, I really, they make me tired.
[00:40:57] I don't want to do, but I kind of have to do, or I don't want to see people anymore. They, they kind of ex express. You know, the, the presence of, or the likes and dislikes that they're, they're not normally there, but most of all, they feel not themselves, which is, you can say, I don't feel myself today. And it doesn't mean you haven't something attached to you, but the way I know it is really particular, I would say, because normally the client lies down for the session and I see somebody else on them.
[00:41:34] Face. And that is when I used to say, would you mind sitting up again please? And I do my work, which is very gentle, very compassionate. So you, do you have two souls at the same time in the possession work? No.
[00:41:49] Amanda Parker: I am sure that someone listening will be like, oh my God, maybe I have an attachment. So if someone is listening and they're not living in London, so they can't call you.
[00:42:02] What could they do? What would you recommend that they do to find out how to feel better within themselves?
[00:42:08] Marta Niccolai: I, I would've to do a diagnostic journey because it doesn't mean, you know, when you feel strange or not yourself, that there is a little attachment there. Um, so I will have to do a diagnostic journey and then maybe refer them to somebody else.
[00:42:25] Amanda Parker: So they, if they live in a different country or something, they could find a shamanic practitioner themselves where they're living.
[00:42:31] Marta Niccolai: Yes.
[00:42:32] Amanda Parker: Yeah.
[00:42:32] Marta Niccolai: We are big. We are a big organization. We are all over Europe almost. So I have colleagues, so definitely I will refer them to somebody.
[00:42:42] Amanda Parker: Yeah. I think it's also just important what you're sharing that.
[00:42:47] You know, whatever the the thing is that feels off within you just, you can ask for help. You can just ask for help. And you don't have to diagnose yourself. You don't have to know what's wrong. You don't know, have, have to know what's going on. But it's always okay to reach out and get the support and.
[00:43:07] Maybe it's someone as brilliant as Marta. Oh hi. And someone who, who comes from the foundation for shamanic studies and maybe someone else crosses your path as well, that you feel like a loving presence, you feel supported in their presence. And it's okay to ask for that support. It, it just feels also important to emphasize that we're entering, you know, winter and the days are short and it's dark and.
[00:43:36] Yeah, I think there's a lot of big things happening in the world that, that people really need that support. Maybe aren't reaching out in the way that they could.
[00:43:46] Marta Niccolai: Yes, yes. Amanda? Yes, I'm here. We are here. Yes. So thank you for mentioning the foundation for Shani Studies. 'cause we hadn't yet. Yes. That's my home.
[00:43:55] Amanda Parker: I'll, I'll put it in the show notes too.
[00:43:58] Marta Niccolai: Yeah, that's my home. I've been teaching for a long time. It is a beautiful community of us and we meet kind of regularly and um, we do co we teach co shamanism, which was. Put together by the anthropologist Michael Horner, who was, um, a US anthropologist. And the foundation Pima Studies is in Los Angeles and in Europe, the headquarters that is in Vienna.
[00:44:27] So we're like sister organization if you want, doing same, same work. We cover all aspects of shamanism, um, in a very, um. Structured way because Michael Hona being academic is did structure his workshops very, very well. And we're very kind of, um, faithful to that structure and to the oral culture. So apart from the two books written by Michael Hona, we have never put anything in writing because it's passed on or so we still keep that tradition.
[00:45:06] Core shamanism can I say, means that, um, uh, it is the fundamentals of shamanism that Michael Harner found in his many, many years of research into indigenous cultures. So it is something that is found cross-culturally once you peel off the cultural coating. That makes anything that is done shamanically more particular.
[00:45:30] So the use of blue color or red color, certain chanting instead of others, the attires that they wear. So all, all that can be found individually and there is beauty in it in finding our own way to practice this core shamanism.
[00:45:46] Amanda Parker: And I would just love to hear, um. How did you get to the practice of shamanism or teaching shamanism?
[00:45:55] So I know that you grew up in Italy, now you're living in the big sprawling city of London, and I have had the privilege of experiencing your work and teaching, but there must have been a Marta before this happened.
[00:46:11] Marta Niccolai: Indeed, yes. Uh, yes. So can I name two key events in my life which have. Led me onto this path, curiously.
[00:46:24] I mean, sometimes things happen and you think that's bad, but actually it's not. I mean, uh, I had a car accident in my middle twenties and in, at that time I was an accountant. You hear me? Mm-hmm. I was an accountant and not very happy with my life. And so I had this car accident and I was bedridden for a little while, and then I thought, Hmm, I really need a vacation before I go back to work.
[00:46:50] And I went to the beautiful southern part. Tuscany ended up in a Airbnb, not an Airbnb, a Airbnb, and there was the manager there who was also. So practicing Kundalini meditation, uh, following OSHA's teachings. And, um, he had a beautiful venue, a room where he practiced that and I joined in. I joined in and a new world opened up completely went back to my work and my, the satisfaction with life deepened.
[00:47:26] My meditation grew and I really, if I had to describe it, 'cause I had described it to myself, or that's how the, you know, the image that came was I felt like an egg. My egg, my life cracking open under the pressure of a new life wanting to come out. So I left. I came today to London, seeking the language.
[00:47:54] This is what I believe. Then actually, again, a new world opened up and after a few years I was in a little restaurant in North London. I met a Mexican man. He started describing himself and what he was doing, he was in academic engineering, he was also doing, um, ology, would you like a reading? And so on.
[00:48:15] That was a friendly conversation, but that evening I began to be aware of a presence on my left hand side, like a puppy of some sort, and I thought, what is going on for something? Felt immediate connection with that Mexican man. Don't know why, but I thought, let's search about Mexico. So I found Castaneda, and in reading the teachings of Don Huan, I felt, I felt there was something to do with my.
[00:48:47] Puppy, um, who was growing into a full animal, which I don't mention because it's my power animal now, and started buying other books. And at the back of, uh, one of these, um, accounts of, uh, um, you know, stepping into Shamanism, personal account of it, that was the foundation for Shaman Studies mentioned. So I went into the way of the shaman and uh, my beautiful by then grown animal became my power animal, and I really felt like some students say.
[00:49:25] Finally, I'm at home because I was seeking for it. I went to India. I spent a few years going back to India. I had a Didi, which is a holy woman who hosted me in a rum in the Maharastra region at the Center of India for a long time, and was in a ganja retreat space, um, for. Sometime and I felt meditation very much, but something was missing.
[00:49:52] So when I did the word the shaman, I went all the way. And many times I also repeated my workshops. 'cause there's so much, so much in each one. Then I started assisting and the ball was rolling. Was rolling, but I was an academic as well. So when I came to London, I did all my higher education and uh, university PhD and everything.
[00:50:15] I became an academic and I was, I taught up to two years ago for 15 years. I loved it, but at one point, again, like the ag, the new life back and I really wanted to dedicate myself to shamanism, which I am doing now. Little bit of academic work and lot of shamanism. What I like and it is a lot. It's a lot that I would like to deepen in terms of shamanic knowledge.
[00:50:47] Amanda Parker: So that's about the time our paths crossed. It was about two years ago when I did my first shamanic course with you, and I have often had this experience. I don't know that this is, um, specifically that, but let's just see. I've often had this experience of either entering people's lives or. Yeah, coming into contact with people.
[00:51:10] Just on that precipice of like pretty massive transformation. So it's very interesting. I'm still learning about myself, what my role in all of this is. 'cause I'm like, I meet people and their lives kind of, you know, explode colorfully shortly after. But I feel very privileged to have found you. And I'm just gonna tell a funny story because when I first found your workshops, I had been looking.
[00:51:39] I had just this voice inside that told me that I was a shaman and decided to follow it, and I had no idea what it meant, and I didn't know where to start. So I had been given the name Sandra Erman. I started listening to some of her podcasts. I probably bought a book or two, and then I started looking for London.
[00:52:00] Okay, how can I learn this in London where I'm living? And I couldn't find anything. So I think I searched a few times, but it just didn't catch my attention. And then at some point I really felt ready. It might have, I don't know. It was, it was a while later and then all of a sudden this workshop came up in North London, very nearby.
[00:52:21] I was skeptical. I thought this was Google's doing, and I didn't know if it was real. So when I first signed up for the way of the Shaman, I gave a fake address and phone number to sign up for.
[00:52:40] And then I showed up and you said, oh, you live in Germany. I was like, oh. Um, no, no. Oh, lemme just correct that.
[00:52:49] Marta Niccolai: That's lovely, Amanda. Oh, bless you. Bless your really pleasure you coming into my life and workshops and the time we met in Hamstead for a conversation, for a chat. And so, you know, Amanda, how.
[00:53:07] Beautiful. But at the same time, Dante needs to step into your own power.
[00:53:13] Amanda Parker: Mike, so I have taken so much of your time, which I'm very grateful for, and I would just like to ask if there's anything else that you would like to share that you feel would be important for someone maybe who's just starting on this journey themselves to know
[00:53:31] Marta Niccolai: You mean the healing journey?
[00:53:34] Amanda Parker: Healing or a shamanic pathway, whichever feels resonant for you.
[00:53:40] Marta Niccolai: Shaman journey, definitely. You know, it's really a gift to come across this path, enter it, um, persevere and realize. The power that lies within the work and ourselves to the point that you approaching this work, you at some point will know that spirits are within, everything happens in this beautiful heart of ours, and so I would like to see.
[00:54:23] Just your first steps and you can go a long way with shamanism. Read a long way. I almost don't want to go into any specific, anything specific, but in valuable, invaluable. Um, don't, you know there is anything I would ever change about my life now. Yeah, please. Step just, just make that first step into learning co shamanism, and then you will see by yourself, whoever you are, you will see by yourself.
[00:55:05] Yeah. Path of beauty. Yeah. Thank you, Amanda.
[00:55:10] Amanda Parker: Thank you so much Marta. So everyone who's listening, who is now desperate to get in a course, you're gonna have all of Marta's contact information, the Foundation for Shamanic Studies. You'll be able to find that in the show notes. If you're ever in London and happen to coincide when Marta's teaching, although you also teach in Italy I believe as well.
[00:55:32] Yeah, right.
[00:55:33] Marta Niccolai: I helped.
[00:55:33] Amanda Parker: So
[00:55:34] Marta Niccolai: yeah, definitely.
[00:55:36] Amanda Parker: So you'll be able to, to get in touch and be able to learn from Marta or just follow the pathway that feels best for you. But Marta, I am. Over the moon that we could have this conversation. I'm so, so grateful to you.
[00:55:52] Marta Niccolai: Me too. Um,
[00:55:53] Amanda Parker: for so many reasons. But thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.
[00:55:58] Marta Niccolai: Thank you, Amanda, for having me very much.
[00:56:00] Amanda Parker: And to everyone who's tuning in, thanks for joining us, and I will see you next time. Thanks for tuning into today's episode of Don't Step On the Blue Bells. If you enjoyed this conversation, please give the podcast a five star rating wherever you listen. And don't forget to hit, subscribe and follow along so you never miss a new episode.